Toward the end of the novel, Phoebe tells Holden that she wants to go away with him. What is Holden's response? Why do you think he responded the way he did? What do we learn about him through this response?
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At the end of the book when Holden meets Pheobe at the Museum, she carries a huge bag with her. She barely made it to the museum. When Holden told her that she did not have to bring him more clothes, she said it was for herself. This made Holden upset because she wanted to go with him. The only reason why he was leaving was because he wanted to run away from his problems again. He told Pheobe to shut up when she said that she wanted to go with him. He was upset because she had nothing to run away from she was in the complete oppostite possition that he was. He did not want her to ruin it. I think he reacted this way because he wanted her to be the opposite of him and she was headed in that direction. She was very smart, she had the lead role in the school play, everything he did not. He is being a good brother. Through this part of the book we learn that he is a very caring person and brother. He wants those he cares about to be successful, something that he is not. This part shows the true side of Holden.
In the end when holden meets phoebe at the museum he feels like he needs to do this alone. He doesn't want phoebe to fall to the same path that he did. This relates to his dream job of catching children as the fall of the cliffs on the rye.It shows that he doesn't want phoebe to be a phony, but he feels like she needs to learn this lesson without him being in the rye to catch her. Like Katherina said he is running away from his problems and to have the one main problem in his life be their with him would make him feel angry. This is the only time we ever see holden angry at his sister. He is slipping into the normality of being a phony by doing one thing, and acting like another.
Holden had met with Phoebe at a museum. He was running from his problems so he didn't have to deal with them. This means he did not have the guts to face up to them. He told her not to come as he might have rubbed on her. She would then end up like him and might become a phony. This relates to his dream job as he lets phonies fall off. However, he wouldn't let his sister fall off. Leaving with him is like falling off. Then he would have to choose between himself or a phony. The phony who is like a reflection of Holden in the opposite way. Like a mirror that displays what you are not. This shows Holden cares about innocent children. Also like the job Phoebe represents the innocent kids. He himself of course represents the catcher in the rye. Phoebe is a child who purposely goes to the edge like a curious one to see what is there. Holden knows if they do they would never come back. If he saves her he would miss an innocent child meaning her innocence was fake. That other innocent child was Allie. He blames himself for losing him even though he didn't cause it, but for not doing anything to try and save him. This also goes into a story of being a catcher in the rye. If two children on different sides both run to the edge (one unwittingly and the other already a phony or purposely) then the catcher is caught. In a way Holden saved Phoebe and Allie fell off and in the most literal way... died. This then gives him guilt. He then has to continue to save the other who is purposely doing it until he learns to change himself instead of focusing on the world around him.
Add-on to comment: Also Holden cares about other people especially the curious one. The curious one actually is saved in order to be given a chance to be saved and learn their lesson by stopping them from even getting a glimpse of it. He does this so Phoebe can learn that Holden tricked the catcher in the rye. He fell off and did something different than others. Instead of being a phony he became an outsider. By doing this most phonies hated him. Phonies made up the world around him. By doing so they failed him and Holden decided not to give in and in return had to be unsuccessful. By keeping Phoebe off the edge she would not become like Holden as he knew she would also become an outsider. He then cares by keeping her innocent in his mind. His mind takes over and changes how he acts, speaks, and thinks of things around him. By doing this Phoebe would be successful, what he wants for Phoebe.
Holden rejects the notion of Phoebe accompanying him. This is because he sees himself as hopeless and he must leave to gain happiness, however Phoebe walks along a different path than himself as an outsider. Phoebe is one thing he believes in and to see her follow in this steps is too much for Holden. Despite this Phoebe persists that she comes with Holden, regardless how it affects herself. Because of this Holden sees how this escape will not benefit him in the slightest not just because of the people he will leave behind. Holden than decides to cease his efforts of egress, he’d rather stay than become even more at an outsider.
When Phoebe tells Holden that she wants to go away with him, Holden acts like a big jerk and appears to not want Phoebe to go with him and starts to really hate her. He starts to repeatedly say shut up to phoebe and says he's starting to really hate her and that he really wants to hit her. (But doesn't) Holden also said he got dizzy and felt like passing out again as Phoebe explained that she wanted to come with him.
Holden's response to Phoebe telling him she wants to come is very mixed and complicated because one part of him, what he wants people to see, is hating Phoebe and excluding her but the second part of him, what he's really feeling seems to be protecting her and wanting her to be safe because he partly knows his fantasy is most likely not to come true. I think Holden feels he should just leave and go way to live by himself because he feels extremely depressed and lonely and thinks that there isn't a purpose for him to be in NYC or to go to school. It's also a feeling of failure and shame and that he can't stand up to his parents and the way they're going to feel as their child once again flunks another school. And he doesn't want Phoebe getting dragged into all that because he feels that it's his escape to try and make something out of what's left of his life because he feels so depressed and lonely; and he doesn't want Phoebe to come because he feels she still has so many opportunities ahead of her as she is also doing very good in school. Holden acts very stern and mean by saying shut-up, no, I want to go by myself, and etc, because he doesn't want to drag Phoebe into what he thinks is his escape from his failed life. Holden starts to feel almost a little too strongly about it as he says he starts to hate Phoebe and wants to smack her because he feels very frustrated in why she would want to throw her life away when she could make so much more out of her life then him but It also shows how much he cares about her well being. He's also throwing away and not really appreciating the fact that Phoebe would go away with him because she looks up to him and loves him as a brother so much.
Holden's response to Phoebe is no. Holden could have not have told Phoebe to "shut up" but honestly I can't blame his for using this exclamitive term, because every older brother needs to look out for their younger siblings and I also think that Holden didn't want his little sister going down the same road that he did.
Honestly in recap, Holden gets kicked out of school. Not a great example for your LITTLE sister. Holden as we learned toward the beginning of the book was failing academically and that's not something that he wants to have his sister go through(although I don't think that is going to happen, though). In class we talked about Holden being a hero and in the reading we learned what wad going on in his head and how kids were playing I a rye and how he would save them from falling off the "cliff". The reason I put cliff in quotations is because I think that the cliff represents the wrong path in life.
I don't think that Holden is literally going to bus a child up off of a cliff before falling but he's going to turn them around before going in the wrong direction. Quitze once said "if you care for children, you are caring for the future of the world" and I think that Holden is definately one of those people. He has a realistic vision of the world and I think all he was trying to do to Phoebe was keep her from falling off the "cliff".
Holden is running away from his problems and he feels like running away is his last resort to life. He in a way gave up on life when he decided to run away.He felt like his life was going nowhere and Pheobe's was so this made him not want her to to come with him. He thinks that Oheobe actually has a shot in life and has nothing to run away from
I think Holden sees Phoebe as all his family has left in a way. Allie died, D.B is off in Hollywood trying to become famous, Holden's mom has been "sick" since Allie died, and Holden's dad is hardly ever mentioned in the book so he is obviously not a very big presence in Holden's life. Holden is running away, he never wants to talk to anyone again, he wants to live in a cabin all by himself out west. Phoebe is smart, funny, and nice. Holden thinks she has a great future. I think that's why Holden gets so upset when Phoebe tells him that she wants to run away with him. It's almost as if he thinks she is the only one without problems so she needs to help the people in her family with problems, he thinks she can't run away from the people who need her.
I think Holden is also mad at himself for being a bad role model to Phoebe. He is disappointed that Phoebe looks up to him enough to want to run away with him. He is disappointed that Phoebe doesn't realize that she has such a better future than him; that she has nothing to run away from. I think the reason he is so happy at the end of the book is that he has made Phoebe happy and that he is starting to set a better role model for her.
Holden goes insane with anger and tells her "no" and to "shut up". I think he responded in this way because of how much he cares for her and how much he doesn't want to ruin her life. He is even mostly bothered by the fact that she won't be able to be Benedict Arnold in her school play. We learn that he can be responsible and he does know what is right even if its not in his best interest. He really grows up here and Pheobe sees it too. Holden Caufield is a good person who does care for people. Especially his sister. He knows how to be a good guy and in my opinion he is a hero. Pablo
the whole thing put together: Holden had met with Phoebe at a museum. He was running from his problems so he didn't have to deal with them. This means he did not have the guts to face up to them. He told her not to come as he might have rubbed on her. She would then end up like him and might become a phony. This relates to his dream job as he lets phonies fall off. However, he wouldn't let his sister fall off. Leaving with him is like falling off. Then he would have to choose between himself or a phony. The phony who is like a reflection of Holden in the opposite way. Like a mirror that displays what you are not. This shows Holden cares about innocent children. Also like the job Phoebe represents the innocent kids. He himself of course represents the catcher in the rye. Phoebe is a child who purposely goes to the edge like a curious one to see what is there. Holden knows if they do they would never come back. If he saves her he would miss an innocent child meaning her innocence was fake. That other innocent child was Allie. He blames himself for losing him even though he didn't cause it, but for not doing anything to try and save him. This also goes into a story of being a catcher in the rye. If two children on different sides both run to the edge (one unwittingly and the other already a phony or purposely) then the catcher is caught. In a way Holden saved Phoebe and Allie fell off and in the most literal way... died. This then gives him guilt. He then has to continue to save the other who is purposely doing it until he learns to change himself instead of focusing on the world around him. Also Holden cares about other people especially the curious one. The curious one actually is saved in order to be given a chance to be saved and learn their lesson by stopping them from even getting a glimpse of it. He does this so Phoebe can learn that Holden tricked the catcher in the rye. He fell off and did something different than others. Instead of being a phony he became an outsider. By doing this most phonies hated him. Phonies made up the world around him. By doing so they failed him and Holden decided not to give in and in return had to be unsuccessful. By keeping Phoebe off the edge she would not become like Holden as he knew she would also become an outsider. He then cares by keeping her innocent in his mind. His mind takes over and changes how he acts, speaks, and thinks of things around him. By doing this Phoebe would be successful, what he wants for Phoebe.
at the end of the book holden discovers that pheobe wants to run away with him and leave her life behind.holden doesn't like this, he feels like she has a gateway of opportunity and thus shouldn't leave. holden is running away because he thinks it will help his problems and fix everything that has happened to him (which it won't). holden is very angry and cant deal with pheobe, but his anger is not at her. holden is angry that he is running away again, he will keep doing this until he finds an answer to his life. this is an important passage because it also represents the idea of the catcher in the rye passage. holden just wants to save people and make their lives better in the easiest way possible, maybe holden will come to realize that could be his answer to life that he was put here to help others yet never help himself.
Holden meets Phoebe near the end of the book to tell her of his plans to escape New York City and go to the country. He was expecting a sad good bye, but he was expecting a goodbye. Phoebe was expecting quite the opposite and wanted to go with Holden to the country. She had a bag packed and was ready to come with him. He was so shocked by her response and immediately said no. She explained to him that he got to wander and do what he pleased but she could not, she explained how unfair this was. Holden had a realization at that moment. He saw that he really was running away from his problems, he wanted to leave the "phony" New York life behind, but not the people he loves. He saw so clearly that he couldn't take Phoebe with him, and when he saw how quickly he reacted he knew that these plans were not what he needed at the time. He needed to be with the people he cared about and who cared about him.
When Phoebe wanted to go width Holden he got so furious he started screaming at her .Holden really cares about Phoebe. He would rather he life get messed up a lot more than hers. Holden thought it was a very stupid idea that Phoebe even considered going width him. Holden doesn't want Phoebe to mess up her life when she has so much to live for. Holden would do anything for his little sister. You can tell that she means so much to him.
When Phoebe tells holden there is deffinatley a sense of shock we experience through Holdens Thoughts. He tells her to go back to school, and becomes very frustrated. Holden 'starts to hate her' and kind of wishes that she would just cry some more. Its almost like he responded this way because he doesn't want her to end up like him. We've gone through this journey that Holden takes and it seems like he has realized that he's been foolish. I think Holden feels that he doesn't want Phoebe to be like him. Theres this respect that holden has for phoebe thats really different from all of his other siblings. Though he does respect them very much, phoebe is this person that holden seems to have this really close relationship with. Theres this risk that she'd be taking if she goes with him, that i don't think Holden agrees with. The reason that he responds in this kind of way is that i think Phoebes one of the figures in his glass case--she's there, and will always be there. Holden wants this to stay the case, and have her consistancy that he does not experience with anyone else to stay the same even if he goes to the west. I think he realizes that not only will it be a risk for him but also for her, because she's so smart, and it's sort of a rare smartness for him, which adds to his respect. We learn that Holden's respect for Phoebe is the protective respect, because in his response, he keeps encouraging her to go back to school, and just sort of let go of this dream to go with him. i think that we experience this fear that Holden has for Phoebe's future, and that he doesn't want it to end up like his. This protectivness is almost like what he had in his future as a 'catcher'. Theres almost this idea that holden is not only his own 'catcher', but phoebes also, and her wanting to come with him, and him refusing, is him fufilling this 'catcher' duty. He has basically protected her from falling off of the cliff.
Holden leaves Mr. Antolini's house when he wakes up and find Mr. Antolini patting his head. It creeps him out to the extent that he rebukes their hospitality and leaves in the middle of the night. He spends the remaining portion of the night sleeping on a bed in Grand Central Station. Holden decides that he wants to run away, and pretend he is deaf and mute, so he wont have to converse with anyone else in his life. He reasons that he could mary another deaf-mute girl and they would be happy together. He feels that it is necessary to tell his younger sister, Phoebe, goodbye so he walks to her school and arranges for her to know that he will be at the Museum waiting for her.
While Holden is waiting for his sister, he encounters two boys who want to know where the mummy exhibit is. Holden takes them but they soon get frightened. He is left alone in the dark and feels quite happy. But soon enough he finds a "fuck you" scrawled on the wall, just like he saw in Phoebe's school. He reflects that you can never find a peaceful place, things always ruin it for you, just like those two little words.
A few minutes later he reunites with his sister and sees her lugging a huge suitcase. At first he is under the impression that it was his possessions, but she reveals that she is coming with him. Holden reacts quite negatively to this. He and his sister begin to argue over this and Holden tells Phoebe to "shut up." Holden admits that this is the harshest thing that he has ever said to her. She gives him back his hunting hat, and assumes an injured and angry mood.
Holden cunningly leads her to the zoo,at first walking on different sides of the sidewalk, and later on they drift closer together. They end up at the carrousel and Phoebe beings to ride it. Soon they are talking again and Holden is overcome by joy.
Holden reacts so strongly to Phoebe's plead because so many things have happened within the past week. He got kicked out of school, wove an assortment of lies, spent a fortune, felt lonely and weak, in despair, and jubilant as well. When he finally came to theto leave is life behind and start anew, his sister wants to come with him, runing the idea of starting over. An idea that Holden longs for, a life in which there where no phonies, hot-shot, or unjust deaths, such as Allies. Holden yearns for a simpler life, one like a child's but if his sister was to come he would be reminded of the unfairness of life, and of his own life in which he would fall into the category of being a phony. Then whole book, Catcher in the Rye has so many overlapping complications, and Holden realizes that he has woven a massive, hypocritical web of lies that he is attempting to disregard by telling his sister she must say while he runs away
Holden’s response is very intense and strong. He gets extremely mad at phoebe for even considering dropping out of school to follow him the west. But all she really wants is to be with Holden, because I believe that she feels that he is growing further away from her, by the second. Holden highly rejects the mere thought of bringing Phoebe with him out west, and he gets very angered by her suggestion. The way he responded shows that Holden cares too much about phoebe to let her follow him, no matter how much he would like to be with her. It shows that Holden does know what’s best for Phoebe. He wants her to grow up with straight morals. And in a way I think that Holden was deathly afraid of the fact that Phoebe wanted to go with him. He knew that he couldn’t let her go with her, and this is partially why he gets upset, because he can’t satisfy his younger sister. But also he’s afraid that phoebe might grow up to be like him. And in many ways, Holden sees himself as an outsider and unsuccessful but he has yet to admit it to himself. And when Holden even considers Phoebe growing up to be like him it scares him greatly because that is not what he wants for his sister. He knows that she is much brighter and more committed than he was at her age. His reaction and response relates to his dream greatly. Phoebe is the children and Holden is the catcher. He is trying to prevent phoebe from falling off this cliff, to save her from “doom”. And maybe, when Phoebe suggests dropping out of school it is as if she is dangerously close to falling off the cliff. Holden attempts to catch her by shouting and sternly saying no to her. From his reaction we learn that Holden is deeply caring about the well being and education of phoebe. He wants for her everything that he doesn’t have and more.
holden wanted to go away because he felt like his life was falling apart and he was just a burden to everyone in his life. the only reason he was being so mean was that he cared so much about phobe and didn't want to see her waste her life like he did. maybe he felt bad aout the way his life was going and he felt like too much had gone wrong to fix and the leadt he could do was save someone elese from that pain.
Holden says no to Phoebe when she asks to go with him. I think that he says this because those are the steps that Holden has already taken. I think that one of the reasons that he turned her down is because he doesn’t want her to be like him or to have his same experiences. Like we have discussed many times before in class Holden cares about younger kids. He doesn’t want Phoebe, or any of them to be like him because he sees himself as a man with a “bullet in his gut”. This seems to be the cause of many actions he has throughout the book. The course of the book seems to be that he sees the world spinning round and sees all kinds of things that are great and terrible about it. He wants to make progress by putting himself or his opinions out there. A message woven into this book seems to be: every different opinion of the world can help make it a better place for us collectively. The way he tries to do this is by protecting the young ones, also, the future of the world. He also attempts to do so by getting out this message.
Towards the end of the novel, Holden decides that he is going to go west and live in a cabin, as a pretend deaf-mute person, with his deaf-mute wife. He probably decides this because he feels the need to run away from his problems. He says when he lives out west he won't talk to anybody unless they communicate through a piece of paper. This shows that he does not want to talk to anybody because it may remind him of something bad or may cause problems for him. When Phoebe asks Holden if she can go, he says "No. Shut up." He responds this way because he does not want her life to end up like his. He does not want her to miss out on opportunities like her school play and he wants her to experience a lot in life. He feels like his life is going nowhere so there is no point to continue doing anything. He lives a depressing life because there is really nobody there for him besides Phoebe. He does not want her to go through the pain he suffers though so he feels she should not be in his life anymore. He has the respect for her where he does not want her life to be bad and he wants her to have a wonderful future. We learn that Holden really cares about Phoebe and that he is a good brother. We see that he knows his life is bad but he wants to make it better for other. It shows his caring side. I think that Holden should be more considerate, though. The way he responds to Phoebe is not a very nice way that he put it. I feel he should have just simply said no and explained why instead of making her cry and have her confused.
When Holden ask Phoebe to meet him at the musuem, she brings a suitcase with her clothes because she wants to runaway with Holden. When Phoebe tells him that he gets angry at her. Holden is trying to protect Phoebe from what he went through. He wants her to stay with his parents so that someone would be there to protect her. He knows that Pheobe can become something in life and won't be a phony he dos not want to see her follow in his footsteps, because in the last couple of days he recognized his pass and saw the wrong in it. I think that he was mad because he had know one to stop him from rumming away and giving up. He knows that Pheobe looks up to him because they are very close and D.B is not there often, so she's showing her the right thing to do instead of following him.
When Phoebe tells Holden he wants to go away with him. Holden's response is very intense. He doesn't start off by being sympathetic but more like just giving her all of it all at once. He acted really selfish in a way because he's saying "No u can't come I wanna go just by myself." I think Holden responded this way because he wanted to 'protect' her. Not really being mean to her on purpose but there is a reason and I believe that reason is to protect her. We learn that he really cares about Phoebe and he's gone through rough experiences and he's made bad decisions and he's trying to protect and to tell her that he wants her to be successful, and do the right things in life. Basically I think Holden is telling Phoebe to do all of these things he never got a chance to do.
In the beginning of the book he's talking to Mr. Spence and Mr. Spence is telling him that he needs to be concerned about the future (because Holden wasn't) and I think now is when he is finally realizes that he should of been more carful in everything he did wrong.
Addition: Holden also feels that once you finally become friends with somebody or start to have a connection with them, you will just lose them. Another reason Holden may want to leave is just because he thinks he does not want a friend or anybody to care for him because he is afraid or losing them or them leaving him.
Brandon thinks that @ the end of the book the reason why Holden doesn't allow Phoebe to go with him is because he seems to have gotten used to being lonely... I mean Holden just seems to value and treasure lonliness and the quiet and no problems and everything is okay... BRANDON<<>>
Holden Caulfield....Has his sister come to the museum to meet him and she asks if she could come with him and you would think Holden would say yes because he loves Phoebe so much it seems, but Holden tells her she cannot come with him. She becomes extremely upset and doesn't understand.
I think Holden doesn't want her to come with him because Phoebe is doing extremely well in school, and Holden was not as successful as he was and what he is now. He doesn't want her to become a phony and by running away with him, she will not learn about life, and she would become a phony, and Holden cares so much about his siblings, that he would not want to see them go in that direction.
when holden meets pheobe at the museum, she is carrying a suitcase with everything she wants to leave with him. in my oppinion, it is a fine sentiment but to holden, I think it was a littles kids ravings. she wanted symply to stay with her older brother but he saw it as an added burden.
I think holden is just a "me" person. he is like me in the way he likes to spend some time with himself. when phoebe wanted to come, he thought she was encrouching on his plans for life and his time to himself. he needed time to get away from his problems and with an other person there,it would be very difficult. pheobe would be a constant reminder of the world he left. it would be painful to anyone but esspecualy to someone who is already deppressed like holden. when you try to escape something, a homework assignment for example, you die every tiime you think of it. pheobe would do the same thing to holden because there would always be a piece of the world he left at his side. personaly, with the people who care about holden caring about me, I dont think I could leave them the way he could. even without a reminder. it would be unbearable to most humans I don't think holden is an acception.
at the end of the storie, holden decides to stay. I think he has decided that the world could be better with him and he would be a better person as a hole if he stayed.
Holden tells her to not come with him and to shut up. He probably said this because he did not want Phoebe to be like him. He knew he was not having the best life and that Phoebe was on the way to a successfull life. He just did not want her to suffer like he is now and not be in his situation when she is older. Holden wants Phoebe to have a good life which shows that he loves her and that he really cares about her. Holden finlly takes it back and decides to stay which really shows that he loves his little sister because he is giving up his life that he planned so much just to make her happy.
Holden's response is that he gets a bit angry and annoyed when Phoebe asks to come along with him.
I think Holden was trying to run away from his problems. He was depressed and sad and his only thought was to get away from them. He became upset with Phoebe because Phoebe wasn't like him. She had so much a head of her in life. She was so so young and she was so smart and so sweet. So i think he was upset that she was willing to throw all of that away.
This shows how much he cares for Phoebe. He really loved her and I'm sure he would have loved her company, even though at sometimes she might get annoying, but he said no because he didn't want Phoebe to end up like him. He didn't want her to be an outsider, or someone who just runs away from their problems.
Everyones being all peppy and saying stuff at the end of their blog post so uhhmm?? Go class of 2011??
Holden's response is not the kind of way I would response if my little sister begged to come with me. He just says no, shupt up now, go back to school. Like he really doesn't want to talk about it, he just want to hurry away. Holden is that kind of person, wants to do everything himself, because everybody else is to "phoney" for him.
When Phoebe meets Holden at the meauseum and tells Holden that she wants to run away with him, Holden gets kind of upset because all he wants to do is protect his little sister. Holden gets all angry and makes Phoebe cry but sometimes, people make you cry and deny you because they love you. They don't want you to do anything dangerous because they don't want to see you getting hurt. I think that this is a moment where Holden really shows his care for Phoebe, and not just expressing it with his words. Even though Holden says she cannot come, and gets all upset, there is a reason he says those things. I think this is what Holden meant a few chapters back, when he was the one catching the children before they fell in the ditch. I think because Holden misses Allie, he's taking extra care for Phoebe because he can't predict the future therefore he wants to protect her always. I think that Holden is really caring inside, he shows that he is rude but when he cares about something, he really tries to take care of it. ♥ Emma Francesca ♥
In the end book Phoebe goes to meet Holden so he could return the money that she gave him. when she comes in to see him she is carrying a big bag. Holden tells her that she didn't have to bring him cloths and she tells him that it is not for him but for herself. she says that she wants to go away with him. Holden thinks that she has no reason to go with him because she has the exact opposite of his life, she has friends, she has good grades in school, But then Holden tells her that she cannot go with him. In this part of the book i realized that Holden really cares about Phoebe and he does not want her to ruin her life by running away with him. This part of the book shows how much Holden cares about phoebe.
Holden was shocked that she had a suitcase, the one that Holden used when he went to Whooton, and was willing to go with him. He said "No, shut up," but he didnt mean to say shut up in a rude way, he just thought that he was going to pass out. He would have loved her to come with him but didnt want her to get in trouble with their 'rents and didnt want her missing out on the play she was going to be in. He responded the way he did because he was too neverous and was probably scared that if Phoebe left with him, he would be the blame. We learn that he just wants to go away with Phoebe and live a happy life with her, and not worry about their mom and dad and brother. Holden said that if they wanted to come for holiday breaks, they could go down and visit him, even Phoebe could do that if she didnt want to go with Holden. -Brianna(:<3
Towards the end of the book Holden and Pheobe meet so Holden can say his final goodbyes to her. When Pheobe gets there she has a bag full of all her clothes because she wanted to runaway with Holden. Holden didn't realize this until she said that she wanted to runaway with him. This was a hard moment for Holden because it showed him the type of model he is to his sister and the affect that he has on her. He was very disappointed with himself and angry because he didn't know how to handle the situation with out saying something mean to her or turning her down roughly. This was a moment that Holden had the chance to think about the reasons for running away. And maybe he did have good reasons because he wanted to leave his old life and restart as someone new, but it wasn't a good enough reason for him to leave his family and especially Pheobe. I think this was probably the hardest decisions he had to make because Pheobe meant to much to him and he didn't want to tell her she can't come with him as a final goodbye.
Holden responds by telling Phoebe to shut up. Holden wants to run away, where people, but more importantly his problems, can't find him. He wants to be alone. When Phoebe says that she wants to come with him, he says no, because he does not want her to be like him and run away from people and problems. He wants her to live her life. He thinks it is early enough in her life for her not to make the same mistakes that he did. He wants her to live her life to the fullest and not end up like him. Phoebe is everything that Holden is not; she is smart in school, she has a lot of friends, she gets the lead in the play and these things never happened to Holden. He thinks that she has had a good start in life and her coming with him is going to mess it up.
Holden had completely and utterly rejected his sister when she asked to come with him. Not only did he reject her but he angrily told her to go home and even thought to himself that he kind of hated her by then. he hated her for wanting to come with him, which is extremely irrational. Holden responded the way that he did because he was upset that his perfect plan was being intruded upon by Phoebe. He was extremely emotional in that time, and he was just so and upset by Phoebe wanting to come with him and take the path he is taking that he broke down. If he had let Phoebe come with him, it would not only have eliminated his chances for solitude, but it would also mean having another person that was unhappy and giving up on life, like himself. We learn that Holden really can't stand when people mess up his "perfect" plans and what he's going to do. It also shows he cares more about other people then he may let on. He doesnt want to ruin Phoebe's life by bringing her to a place without good education, or many friends.
Holden's response was no your not shut up. He responded this way because he new that he was heading for a "rut" or "ditch" and he didn't want to drag phoebe into that "rut" or "ditch." He also knows that she has potential for being successful and he knows that for him to be successful will be very hard. This is the first time that Holden does his job as being a catcher in the rye. If Phoebe were to come with him she would fall into the cliff that he is already falling in.
I also think that he really realizes what his old teacher is saying about dying. He doesn't want Phoebe to get attached because if Phoebe went with him and he died she would have no where to go, she would not have anyone to turn to and losing Holden would cause her to suffer for a lot of her life.
From this decision we learn how close Phoebe and Holden are and how much Phoebe means to him. Phoebe means so much to him that he will give her up to make sure that she has a good life. Sacrifices like that are sometimes the hardest to do because to Phoebe she will feel like Holden is abandoning her but he is really saving her -James
Holden is ready to abandon his life when he meets Phoebe at the museum. She comes carrying her suitcase and asking Holden if she can come with him. This means so much to Holden and gets him so emotionally annoyed because not only does he feel that he was abandoned himself but he also “wants” to feel like everyone else has abandoned him too. But people in the world still care about him and still want him around. He has mixed feelings about if he likes that or not. Holden knows that he can only abandon himself if everyone else has already abandoned him but when he gets recognition from Phoebe he becomes angry because she stops him from giving up.
Also, Holden is angry because Phoebe forces him to realize and accept that “running away” and giving up your life is the coward’s way out. It shows artificial maturity and fake individual strength. Phoebe forces him to realize his mistakes right before he was about to make a major “accomplishment”. He was about to be able to leave this phony life but Phoebe forced him to realize that helping the world is the mature thing to do instead of running from it. Confronting his parents and telling them about his mistakes is the right way to go and, by wanting to come with Holden, Phoebe showed him that. Instead of running away from the world now he can try and help make it a little less phony.
Holden’s response is angry, telling Phoebe to “shut up” a few times. He frequently brings up the play, “I thought you were supposed to be Benedict Arnold in that play and all”. I thought, with him bringing it up so much, that he was really saying, “I thought you were going to be somebody”. I think he felt if Phoebe came along with him, he would impose his usual negative personality on her and he did not want that. He wanted her to be as she is now.
48 comments:
At the end of the book when Holden meets Pheobe at the Museum, she carries a huge bag with her. She barely made it to the museum. When Holden told her that she did not have to bring him more clothes, she said it was for herself. This made Holden upset because she wanted to go with him. The only reason why he was leaving was because he wanted to run away from his problems again. He told Pheobe to shut up when she said that she wanted to go with him. He was upset because she had nothing to run away from she was in the complete oppostite possition that he was. He did not want her to ruin it. I think he reacted this way because he wanted her to be the opposite of him and she was headed in that direction. She was very smart, she had the lead role in the school play, everything he did not. He is being a good brother. Through this part of the book we learn that he is a very caring person and brother. He wants those he cares about to be successful, something that he is not. This part shows the true side of Holden.
In the end when holden meets phoebe at the museum he feels like he needs to do this alone. He doesn't want phoebe to fall to the same path that he did. This relates to his dream job of catching children as the fall of the cliffs on the rye.It shows that he doesn't want phoebe to be a phony, but he feels like she needs to learn this lesson without him being in the rye to catch her.
Like Katherina said he is running away from his problems and to have the one main problem in his life be their with him would make him feel angry. This is the only time we ever see holden angry at his sister. He is slipping into the normality of being a phony by doing one thing, and acting like another.
top two :0
Top Third Today. Yes!!
Don't really have anything yet.
Holden had met with Phoebe at a museum. He was running from his problems so he didn't have to deal with them. This means he did not have the guts to face up to them. He told her not to come as he might have rubbed on her. She would then end up like him and might become a phony. This relates to his dream job as he lets phonies fall off. However, he wouldn't let his sister fall off. Leaving with him is like falling off. Then he would have to choose between himself or a phony. The phony who is like a reflection of Holden in the opposite way. Like a mirror that displays what you are not. This shows Holden cares about innocent children. Also like the job Phoebe represents the innocent kids. He himself of course represents the catcher in the rye. Phoebe is a child who purposely goes to the edge like a curious one to see what is there. Holden knows if they do they would never come back. If he saves her he would miss an innocent child meaning her innocence was fake. That other innocent child was Allie. He blames himself for losing him even though he didn't cause it, but for not doing anything to try and save him. This also goes into a story of being a catcher in the rye. If two children on different sides both run to the edge (one unwittingly and the other already a phony or purposely) then the catcher is caught. In a way Holden saved Phoebe and Allie fell off and in the most literal way... died. This then gives him guilt. He then has to continue to save the other who is purposely doing it until he learns to change himself instead of focusing on the world around him.
class of 11
Add-on to comment:
Also Holden cares about other people especially the curious one. The curious one actually is saved in order to be given a chance to be saved and learn their lesson by stopping them from even getting a glimpse of it. He does this so Phoebe can learn that Holden tricked the catcher in the rye. He fell off and did something different than others. Instead of being a phony he became an outsider. By doing this most phonies hated him. Phonies made up the world around him. By doing so they failed him and Holden decided not to give in and in return had to be unsuccessful. By keeping Phoebe off the edge she would not become like Holden as he knew she would also become an outsider. He then cares by keeping her innocent in his mind. His mind takes over and changes how he acts, speaks, and thinks of things around him. By doing this Phoebe would be successful, what he wants for Phoebe.
Go class of 2011
Holden rejects the notion of Phoebe accompanying him. This is because he sees himself as
hopeless and he must leave to gain happiness, however Phoebe walks along a different
path than himself as an outsider. Phoebe is one thing he believes in and to see her follow in this
steps is too much for Holden. Despite this Phoebe persists that she comes with Holden,
regardless how it affects herself. Because of this Holden sees how this escape will not benefit him in the slightest not just because of the people he will leave behind. Holden than decides to cease his efforts of egress, he’d rather stay than become even more at an outsider.
When Phoebe tells Holden that she wants to go away with him, Holden acts like a big jerk and appears to not want Phoebe to go with him and starts to really hate her. He starts to repeatedly say shut up to phoebe and says he's starting to really hate her and that he really wants to hit her. (But doesn't) Holden also said he got dizzy and felt like passing out again as Phoebe explained that she wanted to come with him.
Holden's response to Phoebe telling him she wants to come is very mixed and complicated because one part of him, what he wants people to see, is hating Phoebe and excluding her but the second part of him, what he's really feeling seems to be protecting her and wanting her to be safe because he partly knows his fantasy is most likely not to come true. I think Holden feels he should just leave and go way to live by himself because he feels extremely depressed and lonely and thinks that there isn't a purpose for him to be in NYC or to go to school. It's also a feeling of failure and shame and that he can't stand up to his parents and the way they're going to feel as their child once again flunks another school. And he doesn't want Phoebe getting dragged into all that because he feels that it's his escape to try and make something out of what's left of his life because he feels so depressed and lonely; and he doesn't want Phoebe to come because he feels she still has so many opportunities ahead of her as she is also doing very good in school. Holden acts very stern and mean by saying shut-up, no, I want to go by myself, and etc, because he doesn't want to drag Phoebe into what he thinks is his escape from his failed life. Holden starts to feel almost a little too strongly about it as he says he starts to hate Phoebe and wants to smack her because he feels very frustrated in why she would want to throw her life away when she could make so much more out of her life then him but It also shows how much he cares about her well being. He's also throwing away and not really appreciating the fact that Phoebe would go away with him because she looks up to him and loves him as a brother so much.
Holden's response to Phoebe is no. Holden could have not have told Phoebe to "shut up" but honestly I can't blame his for using this exclamitive term, because every older brother needs to look out for their younger siblings and I also think that Holden didn't want his little sister going down the same road that he did.
Honestly in recap, Holden gets kicked out of school. Not a great example for your LITTLE sister. Holden as we learned toward the beginning of the book was failing academically and that's not something that he wants to have his sister go through(although I don't think that is going to happen, though). In class we talked about Holden being a hero and in the reading we learned what wad going on in his head and how kids were playing I a rye and how he would save them from falling off the "cliff". The reason I put cliff in quotations is because I think that the cliff represents the wrong path in life.
I don't think that Holden is literally going to bus a child up off of a cliff before falling but he's going to turn them around before going in the wrong direction. Quitze once said "if you care for children, you are caring for the future of the world" and I think that Holden is definately one of those people. He has a realistic vision of the world and I think all he was trying to do to Phoebe was keep her from falling off the "cliff".
Vaughn A.T. Simmons
Yay my longest blog yet!!!!! :-)
Holden is running away from his problems and he feels like running away is his last resort to life. He in a way gave up on life when he decided to run away.He felt like his life was going nowhere and Pheobe's was so this made him not want her to to come with him. He thinks that Oheobe actually has a shot in life and has nothing to run away from
I think Holden sees Phoebe as all his family has left in a way. Allie died, D.B is off in Hollywood trying to become famous, Holden's mom has been "sick" since Allie died, and Holden's dad is hardly ever mentioned in the book so he is obviously not a very big presence in Holden's life. Holden is running away, he never wants to talk to anyone again, he wants to live in a cabin all by himself out west. Phoebe is smart, funny, and nice. Holden thinks she has a great future. I think that's why Holden gets so upset when Phoebe tells him that she wants to run away with him. It's almost as if he thinks she is the only one without problems so she needs to help the people in her family with problems, he thinks she can't run away from the people who need her.
I think Holden is also mad at himself for being a bad role model to Phoebe. He is disappointed that Phoebe looks up to him enough to want to run away with him. He is disappointed that Phoebe doesn't realize that she has such a better future than him; that she has nothing to run away from. I think the reason he is so happy at the end of the book is that he has made Phoebe happy and that he is starting to set a better role model for her.
Holden goes insane with anger and tells her "no" and to "shut up". I think he responded in this way because of how much he cares for her and how much he doesn't want to ruin her life. He is even mostly bothered by the fact that she won't be able to be Benedict Arnold in her school play. We learn that he can be responsible and he does know what is right even if its not in his best interest. He really grows up here and Pheobe sees it too. Holden Caufield is a good person who does care for people. Especially his sister. He knows how to be a good guy and in my opinion he is a hero.
Pablo
the whole thing put together:
Holden had met with Phoebe at a museum. He was running from his problems so he didn't have to deal with them. This means he did not have the guts to face up to them. He told her not to come as he might have rubbed on her. She would then end up like him and might become a phony. This relates to his dream job as he lets phonies fall off. However, he wouldn't let his sister fall off. Leaving with him is like falling off. Then he would have to choose between himself or a phony. The phony who is like a reflection of Holden in the opposite way. Like a mirror that displays what you are not. This shows Holden cares about innocent children. Also like the job Phoebe represents the innocent kids. He himself of course represents the catcher in the rye. Phoebe is a child who purposely goes to the edge like a curious one to see what is there. Holden knows if they do they would never come back. If he saves her he would miss an innocent child meaning her innocence was fake. That other innocent child was Allie. He blames himself for losing him even though he didn't cause it, but for not doing anything to try and save him. This also goes into a story of being a catcher in the rye. If two children on different sides both run to the edge (one unwittingly and the other already a phony or purposely) then the catcher is caught. In a way Holden saved Phoebe and Allie fell off and in the most literal way... died. This then gives him guilt. He then has to continue to save the other who is purposely doing it until he learns to change himself instead of focusing on the world around him. Also Holden cares about other people especially the curious one. The curious one actually is saved in order to be given a chance to be saved and learn their lesson by stopping them from even getting a glimpse of it. He does this so Phoebe can learn that Holden tricked the catcher in the rye. He fell off and did something different than others. Instead of being a phony he became an outsider. By doing this most phonies hated him. Phonies made up the world around him. By doing so they failed him and Holden decided not to give in and in return had to be unsuccessful. By keeping Phoebe off the edge she would not become like Holden as he knew she would also become an outsider. He then cares by keeping her innocent in his mind. His mind takes over and changes how he acts, speaks, and thinks of things around him. By doing this Phoebe would be successful, what he wants for Phoebe.
Go class of 2011
at the end of the book holden discovers that pheobe wants to run away with him and leave her life behind.holden doesn't like this, he feels like she has a gateway of opportunity and thus shouldn't leave. holden is running away because he thinks it will help his problems and fix everything that has happened to him (which it won't). holden is very angry and cant deal with pheobe, but his anger is not at her. holden is angry that he is running away again, he will keep doing this until he finds an answer to his life. this is an important passage because it also represents the idea of the catcher in the rye passage. holden just wants to save people and make their lives better in the easiest way possible, maybe holden will come to realize that could be his answer to life that he was put here to help others yet never help himself.
class of 2010 rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go 7th Grade (response to Emmett)
Holden meets Phoebe near the end of the book to tell her of his plans to escape New York City and go to the country. He was expecting a sad good bye, but he was expecting a goodbye. Phoebe was expecting quite the opposite and wanted to go with Holden to the country. She had a bag packed and was ready to come with him. He was so shocked by her response and immediately said no. She explained to him that he got to wander and do what he pleased but she could not, she explained how unfair this was. Holden had a realization at that moment. He saw that he really was running away from his problems, he wanted to leave the "phony" New York life behind, but not the people he loves. He saw so clearly that he couldn't take Phoebe with him, and when he saw how quickly he reacted he knew that these plans were not what he needed at the time. He needed to be with the people he cared about and who cared about him.
When Phoebe wanted to go width Holden he got so furious he started screaming at her .Holden really cares about Phoebe. He would rather he life get messed up a lot more than hers. Holden thought it was a very stupid idea that Phoebe even considered going width him. Holden doesn't want Phoebe to mess up her life when she has so much to live for. Holden would do anything for his little sister. You can tell that she means so much to him.
When Phoebe tells holden there is deffinatley a sense of shock we experience through Holdens Thoughts. He tells her to go back to school, and becomes very frustrated. Holden 'starts to hate her' and kind of wishes that she would just cry some more. Its almost like he responded this way because he doesn't want her to end up like him. We've gone through this journey that Holden takes and it seems like he has realized that he's been foolish. I think Holden feels that he doesn't want Phoebe to be like him. Theres this respect that holden has for phoebe thats really different from all of his other siblings. Though he does respect them very much, phoebe is this person that holden seems to have this really close relationship with. Theres this risk that she'd be taking if she goes with him, that i don't think Holden agrees with. The reason that he responds in this kind of way is that i think Phoebes one of the figures in his glass case--she's there, and will always be there. Holden wants this to stay the case, and have her consistancy that he does not experience with anyone else to stay the same even if he goes to the west. I think he realizes that not only will it be a risk for him but also for her, because she's so smart, and it's sort of a rare smartness for him, which adds to his respect. We learn that Holden's respect for Phoebe is the protective respect, because in his response, he keeps encouraging her to go back to school, and just sort of let go of this dream to go with him. i think that we experience this fear that Holden has for Phoebe's future, and that he doesn't want it to end up like his. This protectivness is almost like what he had in his future as a 'catcher'. Theres almost this idea that holden is not only his own 'catcher', but phoebes also, and her wanting to come with him, and him refusing, is him fufilling this 'catcher' duty. He has basically protected her from falling off of the cliff.
umm... class of 2011. all the way.
Holden leaves Mr. Antolini's house when he wakes up and find Mr. Antolini patting his head. It creeps him out to the extent that he rebukes their hospitality and leaves in the middle of the night. He spends the remaining portion of the night sleeping on a bed in Grand Central Station. Holden decides that he wants to run away, and pretend he is deaf and mute, so he wont have to converse with anyone else in his life. He reasons that he could mary another deaf-mute girl and they would be happy together. He feels that it is necessary to tell his younger sister, Phoebe, goodbye so he walks to her school and arranges for her to know that he will be at the Museum waiting for her.
While Holden is waiting for his sister, he encounters two boys who want to know where the mummy exhibit is. Holden takes them but they soon get frightened. He is left alone in the dark and feels quite happy. But soon enough he finds a "fuck you" scrawled on the wall, just like he saw in Phoebe's school. He reflects that you can never find a peaceful place, things always ruin it for you, just like those two little words.
A few minutes later he reunites with his sister and sees her lugging a huge suitcase. At first he is under the impression that it was his possessions, but she reveals that she is coming with him. Holden reacts quite negatively to this. He and his sister begin to argue over this and Holden tells Phoebe to "shut up." Holden admits that this is the harshest thing that he has ever said to her. She gives him back his hunting hat, and assumes an injured and angry mood.
Holden cunningly leads her to the zoo,at first walking on different sides of the sidewalk, and later on they drift closer together. They end up at the carrousel and Phoebe beings to ride it. Soon they are talking again and Holden is overcome by joy.
Holden reacts so strongly to Phoebe's plead because so many things have happened within the past week. He got kicked out of school, wove an assortment of lies, spent a fortune, felt lonely and weak, in despair, and jubilant as well. When he finally came to theto leave is life behind and start anew, his sister wants to come with him, runing the idea of starting over. An idea that Holden longs for, a life in which there where no phonies, hot-shot, or unjust deaths, such as Allies. Holden yearns for a simpler life, one like a child's but if his sister was to come he would be reminded of the unfairness of life, and of his own life in which he would fall into the category of being a phony. Then whole book, Catcher in the Rye has so many overlapping complications, and Holden realizes that he has woven a massive, hypocritical web of lies that he is attempting to disregard by telling his sister she must say while he runs away
Holden’s response is very intense and strong. He gets extremely mad at phoebe for even considering dropping out of school to follow him the west. But all she really wants is to be with Holden, because I believe that she feels that he is growing further away from her, by the second. Holden highly rejects the mere thought of bringing Phoebe with him out west, and he gets very angered by her suggestion. The way he responded shows that Holden cares too much about phoebe to let her follow him, no matter how much he would like to be with her. It shows that Holden does know what’s best for Phoebe. He wants her to grow up with straight morals. And in a way I think that Holden was deathly afraid of the fact that Phoebe wanted to go with him. He knew that he couldn’t let her go with her, and this is partially why he gets upset, because he can’t satisfy his younger sister. But also he’s afraid that phoebe might grow up to be like him. And in many ways, Holden sees himself as an outsider and unsuccessful but he has yet to admit it to himself. And when Holden even considers Phoebe growing up to be like him it scares him greatly because that is not what he wants for his sister. He knows that she is much brighter and more committed than he was at her age. His reaction and response relates to his dream greatly. Phoebe is the children and Holden is the catcher. He is trying to prevent phoebe from falling off this cliff, to save her from “doom”. And maybe, when Phoebe suggests dropping out of school it is as if she is dangerously close to falling off the cliff. Holden attempts to catch her by shouting and sternly saying no to her. From his reaction we learn that Holden is deeply caring about the well being and education of phoebe. He wants for her everything that he doesn’t have and more.
holden wanted to go away because he felt like his life was falling apart and he was just a burden to everyone in his life. the only reason he was being so mean was that he cared so much about phobe and didn't want to see her waste her life like he did. maybe he felt bad aout the way his life was going and he felt like too much had gone wrong to fix and the leadt he could do was save someone elese from that pain.
Holden says no to Phoebe when she asks to go with him. I think that he says this because those are the steps that Holden has already taken. I think that one of the reasons that he turned her down is because he doesn’t want her to be like him or to have his same experiences. Like we have discussed many times before in class Holden cares about younger kids. He doesn’t want Phoebe, or any of them to be like him because he sees himself as a man with a “bullet in his gut”. This seems to be the cause of many actions he has throughout the book. The course of the book seems to be that he sees the world spinning round and sees all kinds of things that are great and terrible about it. He wants to make progress by putting himself or his opinions out there. A message woven into this book seems to be: every different opinion of the world can help make it a better place for us collectively. The way he tries to do this is by protecting the young ones, also, the future of the world. He also attempts to do so by getting out this message.
Towards the end of the novel, Holden decides that he is going to go west and live in a cabin, as a pretend deaf-mute person, with his deaf-mute wife. He probably decides this because he feels the need to run away from his problems. He says when he lives out west he won't talk to anybody unless they communicate through a piece of paper. This shows that he does not want to talk to anybody because it may remind him of something bad or may cause problems for him.
When Phoebe asks Holden if she can go, he says "No. Shut up." He responds this way because he does not want her life to end up like his. He does not want her to miss out on opportunities like her school play and he wants her to experience a lot in life. He feels like his life is going nowhere so there is no point to continue doing anything. He lives a depressing life because there is really nobody there for him besides Phoebe. He does not want her to go through the pain he suffers though so he feels she should not be in his life anymore. He has the respect for her where he does not want her life to be bad and he wants her to have a wonderful future.
We learn that Holden really cares about Phoebe and that he is a good brother. We see that he knows his life is bad but he wants to make it better for other. It shows his caring side.
I think that Holden should be more considerate, though. The way he responds to Phoebe is not a very nice way that he put it. I feel he should have just simply said no and explained why instead of making her cry and have her confused.
When Holden ask Phoebe to meet him at the musuem, she brings a suitcase with her clothes because she wants to runaway with Holden. When Phoebe tells him that he gets angry at her. Holden is trying to protect Phoebe from what he went through. He wants her to stay with his parents so that someone would be there to protect her. He knows that Pheobe can become something in life and won't be a phony he dos not want to see her follow in his footsteps, because in the last couple of days he recognized his pass and saw the wrong in it. I think that he was mad because he had know one to stop him from rumming away and giving up. He knows that Pheobe looks up to him because they are very close and D.B is not there often, so she's showing her the right thing to do instead of following him.
When Phoebe tells Holden he wants to go away with him. Holden's response is very intense. He doesn't start off by being sympathetic but more like just giving her all of it all at once. He acted really selfish in a way because he's saying "No u can't come I wanna go just by myself." I think Holden responded this way because he wanted to 'protect' her. Not really being mean to her on purpose but there is a reason and I believe that reason is to protect her. We learn that he really cares about Phoebe and he's gone through rough experiences and he's made bad decisions and he's trying to protect and to tell her that he wants her to be successful, and do the right things in life. Basically I think Holden is telling Phoebe to do all of these things he never got a chance to do.
In the beginning of the book he's talking to Mr. Spence and Mr. Spence is telling him that he needs to be concerned about the future (because Holden wasn't) and I think now is when he is finally realizes that he should of been more carful in everything he did wrong.
Addition: Holden also feels that once you finally become friends with somebody or start to have a connection with them, you will just lose them. Another reason Holden may want to leave is just because he thinks he does not want a friend or anybody to care for him because he is afraid or losing them or them leaving him.
Brandon thinks that @ the end of the book the reason why Holden doesn't allow Phoebe to go with him is because he seems to have gotten used to being lonely... I mean Holden just seems to value and treasure lonliness and the quiet and no problems and everything is okay...
BRANDON<<>>
Holden Caulfield....Has his sister come to the museum to meet him and she asks if she could come with him and you would think Holden would say yes because he loves Phoebe so much it seems, but Holden tells her she cannot come with him. She becomes extremely upset and doesn't understand.
I think Holden doesn't want her to come with him because Phoebe is doing extremely well in school, and Holden was not as successful as he was and what he is now. He doesn't want her to become a phony and by running away with him, she will not learn about life, and she would become a phony, and Holden cares so much about his siblings, that he would not want to see them go in that direction.
when holden meets pheobe at the museum, she is carrying a suitcase with everything she wants to leave with him. in my oppinion, it is a fine sentiment but to holden, I think it was a littles kids ravings. she wanted symply to stay with her older brother but he saw it as an added burden.
I think holden is just a "me" person. he is like me in the way he likes to spend some time with himself. when phoebe wanted to come, he thought she was encrouching on his plans for life and his time to himself. he needed time to get away from his problems and with an other person there,it would be very difficult. pheobe would be a constant reminder of the world he left. it would be painful to anyone but esspecualy to someone who is already deppressed like holden. when you try to escape something, a homework assignment for example, you die every tiime you think of it. pheobe would do the same thing to holden because there would always be a piece of the world he left at his side. personaly, with the people who care about holden caring about me, I dont think I could leave them the way he could. even without a reminder. it would be unbearable to most humans I don't think holden is an acception.
at the end of the storie, holden decides to stay. I think he has decided that the world could be better with him and he would be a better person as a hole if he stayed.
Holden tells her to not come with him and to shut up. He probably said this because he did not want Phoebe to be like him. He knew he was not having the best life and that Phoebe was on the way to a successfull life. He just did not want her to suffer like he is now and not be in his situation when she is older. Holden wants Phoebe to have a good life which shows that he loves her and that he really cares about her. Holden finlly takes it back and decides to stay which really shows that he loves his little sister because he is giving up his life that he planned so much just to make her happy.
Holden's response is that he gets a bit angry and annoyed when Phoebe asks to come along with him.
I think Holden was trying to run away from his problems. He was depressed and sad and his only thought was to get away from them. He became upset with Phoebe because Phoebe wasn't like him. She had so much a head of her in life. She was so so young and she was so smart and so sweet. So i think he was upset that she was willing to throw all of that away.
This shows how much he cares for Phoebe. He really loved her and I'm sure he would have loved her company, even though at sometimes she might get annoying, but he said no because he didn't want Phoebe to end up like him. He didn't want her to be an outsider, or someone who just runs away from their problems.
Everyones being all peppy and saying stuff at the end of their blog post so uhhmm?? Go class of 2011??
Holden's response is not the kind of way I would response if my little sister begged to come with me. He just says no, shupt up now, go back to school. Like he really doesn't want to talk about it, he just want to hurry away. Holden is that kind of person, wants to do everything himself, because everybody else is to "phoney" for him.
When Phoebe meets Holden at the meauseum and tells Holden that she wants to run away with him, Holden gets kind of upset because all he wants to do is protect his little sister. Holden gets all angry and makes Phoebe cry but sometimes, people make you cry and deny you because they love you. They don't want you to do anything dangerous because they don't want to see you getting hurt. I think that this is a moment where Holden really shows his care for Phoebe, and not just expressing it with his words. Even though Holden says she cannot come, and gets all upset, there is a reason he says those things. I think this is what Holden meant a few chapters back, when he was the one catching the children before they fell in the ditch. I think because Holden misses Allie, he's taking extra care for Phoebe because he can't predict the future therefore he wants to protect her always. I think that Holden is really caring inside, he shows that he is rude but when he cares about something, he really tries to take care of it.
♥ Emma Francesca ♥
CLASS 2010 = shebangin=]
♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
In the end book Phoebe goes to meet Holden so he could return the money that she gave him. when she comes in to see him she is carrying a big bag. Holden tells her that she didn't have to bring him cloths and she tells him that it is not for him but for herself. she says that she wants to go away with him. Holden thinks that she has no reason to go with him because she has the exact opposite of his life, she has friends, she has good grades in school, But then Holden tells her that she cannot go with him. In this part of the book i realized that Holden really cares about Phoebe and he does not want her to ruin her life by running away with him. This part of the book shows how much Holden cares about phoebe.
Holden was shocked that she had a suitcase, the one that Holden used when he went to Whooton, and was willing to go with him. He said "No, shut up," but he didnt mean to say shut up in a rude way, he just thought that he was going to pass out. He would have loved her to come with him but didnt want her to get in trouble with their 'rents and didnt want her missing out on the play she was going to be in.
He responded the way he did because he was too neverous and was probably scared that if Phoebe left with him, he would be the blame.
We learn that he just wants to go away with Phoebe and live a happy life with her, and not worry about their mom and dad and brother. Holden said that if they wanted to come for holiday breaks, they could go down and visit him, even Phoebe could do that if she didnt want to go with Holden.
-Brianna(:<3
Towards the end of the book Holden and Pheobe meet so Holden can say his final goodbyes to her. When Pheobe gets there she has a bag full of all her clothes because she wanted to runaway with Holden. Holden didn't realize this until she said that she wanted to runaway with him. This was a hard moment for Holden because it showed him the type of model he is to his sister and the affect that he has on her. He was very disappointed with himself and angry because he didn't know how to handle the situation with out saying something mean to her or turning her down roughly. This was a moment that Holden had the chance to think about the reasons for running away. And maybe he did have good reasons because he wanted to leave his old life and restart as someone new, but it wasn't a good enough reason for him to leave his family and especially Pheobe. I think this was probably the hardest decisions he had to make because Pheobe meant to much to him and he didn't want to tell her she can't come with him as a final goodbye.
Holden responds by telling Phoebe to shut up. Holden wants to run away, where people, but more importantly his problems, can't find him. He wants to be alone. When Phoebe says that she wants to come with him, he says no, because he does not want her to be like him and run away from people and problems. He wants her to live her life. He thinks it is early enough in her life for her not to make the same mistakes that he did. He wants her to live her life to the fullest and not end up like him. Phoebe is everything that Holden is not; she is smart in school, she has a lot of friends, she gets the lead in the play and these things never happened to Holden. He thinks that she has had a good start in life and her coming with him is going to mess it up.
Holden had completely and utterly rejected his sister when she asked to come with him. Not only did he reject her but he angrily told her to go home and even thought to himself that he kind of hated her by then. he hated her for wanting to come with him, which is extremely irrational. Holden responded the way that he did because he was upset that his perfect plan was being intruded upon by Phoebe. He was extremely emotional in that time, and he was just so and upset by Phoebe wanting to come with him and take the path he is taking that he broke down. If he had let Phoebe come with him, it would not only have eliminated his chances for solitude, but it would also mean having another person that was unhappy and giving up on life, like himself. We learn that Holden really can't stand when people mess up his "perfect" plans and what he's going to do. It also shows he cares more about other people then he may let on. He doesnt want to ruin Phoebe's life by bringing her to a place without good education, or many friends.
Holden's response was no your not shut up. He responded this way because he new that he was heading for a "rut" or "ditch" and he didn't want to drag phoebe into that "rut" or "ditch." He also knows that she has potential for being successful and he knows that for him to be successful will be very hard. This is the first time that Holden does his job as being a catcher in the rye. If Phoebe were to come with him she would fall into the cliff that he is already falling in.
I also think that he really realizes what his old teacher is saying about dying. He doesn't want Phoebe to get attached because if Phoebe went with him and he died she would have no where to go, she would not have anyone to turn to and losing Holden would cause her to suffer for a lot of her life.
From this decision we learn how close Phoebe and Holden are and how much Phoebe means to him. Phoebe means so much to him that he will give her up to make sure that she has a good life. Sacrifices like that are sometimes the hardest to do because to Phoebe she will feel like Holden is abandoning her but he is really saving her
-James
Caught some typos in my first post...
Holden is ready to abandon his life when he meets Phoebe at the museum. She comes carrying her suitcase and asking Holden if she can come with him. This means so much to Holden and gets him so emotionally annoyed because not only does he feel that he was abandoned himself but he also “wants” to feel like everyone else has abandoned him too. But people in the world still care about him and still want him around. He has mixed feelings about if he likes that or not. Holden knows that he can only abandon himself if everyone else has already abandoned him but when he gets recognition from Phoebe he becomes angry because she stops him from giving up.
Also, Holden is angry because Phoebe forces him to realize and accept that “running away” and giving up your life is the coward’s way out. It shows artificial maturity and fake individual strength. Phoebe forces him to realize his mistakes right before he was about to make a major “accomplishment”. He was about to be able to leave this phony life but Phoebe forced him to realize that helping the world is the mature thing to do instead of running from it. Confronting his parents and telling them about his mistakes is the right way to go and, by wanting to come with Holden, Phoebe showed him that. Instead of running away from the world now he can try and help make it a little less phony.
Holden’s response is angry, telling Phoebe to “shut up” a few times. He frequently brings up the play, “I thought you were supposed to be Benedict Arnold in that play and all”. I thought, with him bringing it up so much, that he was really saying, “I thought you were going to be somebody”. I think he felt if Phoebe came along with him, he would impose his usual negative personality on her and he did not want that. He wanted her to be as she is now.
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